Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

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ElChristou
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#61by ElChristou » 12.04.2009, 11:52

linuxm@n wrote:Hello soon back in Montpellier... ?

Last time in France I was close to spend a few days there but finally I couldn't... :(
Now, I haven't any plan to return back immediately, but don't worry I want my beer taking a sun bath at "place de l'Oeuf"! :wink:


linuxm@n wrote:I had a look on your model 2 months ago, it was very good and really interesting if your model can run on most computers.
ISS needed really others models for celestia.

Yep, there is room fore more than one model and since our "style" is different that's cool. I try hard to get it as light as possible but even like this, no way to have a nice 25 fps on medium configs... Let's say my model will be good for "manipulation" on low/medium config and good for fly through on medium + and high config... Loading time should be good in all case...

I'll be happy to have a look at your ssc and scripts because as you know it's really not my strong... Would you be kind enough to post them here once they are over?
Image

asteroid
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#62by asteroid » 12.04.2009, 22:25

linuxm@n wrote:
bh wrote:......
Did someone watched the little movie here ?

http://celestiasws.free.fr/ISS/celestiaissmovie.ogg

can furnish an avi format but quality is very lower

Linuxman
That is simply amazing. I can't wait to see this pack released.

danielj
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#63by danielj » 13.04.2009, 23:21

YOU ARE RIGHT!
I put the HR ISS in Celestia 1.6.0 RC0 with the default Earth texture (2k) and the default cloud map (1k) and the model ran between 30 and 45 fps! :wink:

ANDREA wrote:
danielj wrote:I will surely try this model in MY NEXT COMPUTER.In the present computer,it?s impossible.If you are getting 30 fps in a Core2Quad overclocked,4 GB RAM and 8800 GTX,I guess I will have terrible frame rates in a basic dual core with 8800 GS. Actually the old detailed ISS crashes my Celestia if I put the 64K BMNG at the same time!
Danielj, everything has its own price. :(
My 30 fps are obtained using 4k Earth texture and 2k Earth-clouds, nothing more.
May be that if I would use 64k Earth textures my PC would crash or, being VTs, perhaps not, dunno.
But for sure I will not try it with this ISS. :wink:
A matter of choises, IMHO, but I prefer that my students be focalized on the ISS instead on the Earth.
Bye

Andrea :D

ANDREA
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#64by ANDREA » 13.04.2009, 23:37

danielj wrote:YOU ARE RIGHT!
I put the HR ISS in Celestia 1.6.0 RC0 with the default Earth texture (2k) and the default cloud map (1k) and the model ran between 30 and 45 fps! :wink:
Happy you can enjoy it, Danielj.
Bye

Andrea :D
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Celestia1.4.1_patch3- Vincent's LUA Edu Tools 1.2

danielj
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#65by danielj » 14.04.2009, 15:47

But I download the FIRST HR model,a little raw.Is there a link to a newer model?I only find 0NE link in this topic!

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#66by linuxm@n » 15.04.2009, 08:32

danielj wrote:But I download the FIRST HR model,a little raw.Is there a link to a newer model?I only find 0NE link in this topic!

The second release is not online for the moment, i think that the new pack will be online in some days.

I'm searching the syntax of the "replace" command to change original ISS with the new one.

Linuxman
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selden
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#67by selden » 15.04.2009, 10:51

Summary:
Do not use dxt3 or dxt5 for models in Celestia :(
dxt1 is OK.

linuxm@n wrote:hello Selden

I tried yesterday different command with nvidia nvdxt utilities like this one or others:

wine nvdxt -file atpir2.jpg -dxt5 -alpha -aclear -rescale -gamma -outdir
But picture are transparent.... (the wine command emulate windows on linux)

I have also tried DDS converter 2 and i don't find a place to specify that the alpha channel is white

With The Gimp i have a plugin to use dds picture and i don't f find
more solution.

The white alpha channel must be specified then i create the picture with Gimp ?



Linuxman

I'm sorry about the delay in getting back to you.

According to the help text which I get when I type only
nvdxt
-aclear : store 0.0 in alpha channel
-awhite : store 1.0 in alpha channel

0.0 = black = transparent
so you should use
-awhite

but I get a translucent texture when I do that, too. I think it must be a bug in nvdxt.
However, nvdxt makes opaque textures for me when I create a DXT5 texture from a .TGA file which already contains a white alpha channel.

I use ImageMagick's convert under Windows to manipulate images. I use the 8bit version of ImageMagick to ensure compatibility with Celestia.

Code: Select all

# create tga image with alpha channel
#use white image file as alpha channel for surface texture image
convert white_2k.ppm metallic96.jpg +matte -compose CopyOpacity -composite metallic96.tga
# create metallic96.dds
nvdxt -file metallic96.tga -dxt5


[edit]
This is very strange.
It is now failing for me.
DXT5 and DXT3 textures are always translucent when converting from tga with a white alpha channel. I even tried an older version of nvdxt (8.22) and it fails, too.

However,
I get an opaque dxt5 texture if I convert directly from jpg to dxt5 with the command

Code: Select all

nvdxt -file metallic96_mine.jpg -output metallic96.dds -dxt5


I get an opaque dxt5 texture if I convert the jpg to png and then to dds with the commands

Code: Select all

convert metallic96_mine.jpg metallic96_mine.png
nvdxt -file metallic96_mine.png -output metallic96.dds -dxt5


So, nvdxt seems to do the right thing if the original image has no alpha channel and you do not tell nvdxt to do anything about the alpha channel. In other words:
Do not use the either of the qualifiers -aclear or -awhite.

[edit #2]

Oh, this is nasty.
Apparently dxt5 does have transparency set, even though it's opaque.
This breaks depth sorting in both Celestia v1.6 and Celestia v1.5.1.

Here is a picture of a torus using a png surface texture. It looks fine.
Image

Here is a picture of a torus using the dxt5 surface texture created from the png image. It is broken. It is opaque, but it is drawn wrong.
Image

Note that this depth sorting problem is seen in both v1.5.1 and v1.6.

Result: do not use dxt3 or dxt5 for models in Celestia :(
Selden

chris
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#68by chris » 15.04.2009, 16:05

selden wrote:Summary:
Do not use dxt3 or dxt5 for models in Celestia :(
dxt1 is OK.

Not quite true... The statement should be: don't use DXT3 or DXT5 for anything unless the texture actually has transparent parts. The reason for this is not just Celestia's handling of DXT3 and DXT5: for opaque textures, DXT1 gives the same quality as DXT3 and DXT5 but at half the size. DXT3 and DXT5 use the same color compression technique as DXT1 but add extra information for alpha. If your texture is opaque, the space used for the alpha information is wasted.

At the moment, Celestia doesn't analyze the contents of a texture to find out if there are any translucent texels. It assumes that a DXT3 or a DXT5 texture does have transparent pixels, disables z-writes, and displays the visual problems being reported in this thread. We should file a bug on this. It's not too difficult to make Celestia load the textures and check for transparency.

Note that none of this applies when a DXT compressed texture is used as a normal map. The best quality compressed normal maps are obtained with the dxt5 format, and normal maps are never treated as transparent.

--Chris

t00fri
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#69by t00fri » 15.04.2009, 18:05

chris wrote:
selden wrote:Summary:
Do not use dxt3 or dxt5 for models in Celestia :(
dxt1 is OK.

Not quite true... The statement should be: don't use DXT3 or DXT5 for anything unless the texture actually has transparent parts. The reason for this is not just Celestia's handling of DXT3 and DXT5: for opaque textures, DXT1 gives the same quality as DXT3 and DXT5 but at half the size.
--Chris

Chris,

I agree at the "textbook level" ;-)

But you presumably also know that there are a number of high-quality compression algorithms, that exploit the alpha channel of DXT5 as an additional storage!
This is somewhat analogous to the DXT5nm trick.

YCoCg-DXT5 for example: using the YCoCg color space, but encoding the Y component in the alpha channel of a DXT5 block, and the CoCg components in the RGB channels.

Or two-texture compression algorithms: e.g. one DXT1 is used to store the luma and one DXT5(nm) to store the chroma information

etc.

All these are unsupported by Celestia.

Fridger
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selden
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#70by selden » 15.04.2009, 19:16

chris wrote:We should file a bug on this. It's not too difficult to make Celestia load the textures and check for transparency.

done.
Artifact ID: 2766236
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=121302
Selden

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#71by linuxm@n » 18.04.2009, 13:44

selden wrote:Summary:
Do not use dxt3 or dxt5 for models in Celestia :(
dxt1 is OK.
Result: do not use dxt3 or dxt5 for models in Celestia :(


Thank you Selden, i will use dxt1 for my models.
and dxt3 dxt5 for the planets.

Linuxman
StarWarSaga 2001 odyssey Back in USSR by linuxman

http://celestiasws.free.fr

AMD-64x2-6000 4 gb DDR2-800 geforce GTX460 1gb Asus M2N-sli-d Apple cinema display 23" Linux Gentoo 64 bits Vista pro 64 bits celestia 1.60 official

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#72by linuxm@n » 18.04.2009, 13:46

ElChristou wrote:
linuxm@n wrote:Hello soon back in Montpellier... ?
.......
I'll be happy to have a look at your ssc and scripts because as you know it's really not my strong... Would you be kind enough to post them here once they are over?

I just send you ssc files by mail

Linuxman
StarWarSaga 2001 odyssey Back in USSR by linuxman

http://celestiasws.free.fr

AMD-64x2-6000 4 gb DDR2-800 geforce GTX460 1gb Asus M2N-sli-d Apple cinema display 23" Linux Gentoo 64 bits Vista pro 64 bits celestia 1.60 official

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#73by linuxm@n » 27.04.2009, 20:18

danielj wrote:YOU ARE RIGHT!
I put the HR ISS in Celestia 1.6.0 RC0 with the default Earth texture (2k) and the default cloud map (1k) and the model ran between 30 and 45 fps! :wink:

ANDREA wrote:
danielj wrote:I will surely try this model in MY NEXT COMPUTER.In the present computer,it?s impossible.If you are getting 30 fps in a Core2Quad overclocked,4 GB RAM and 8800 GTX,I guess I will have terrible frame rates in a basic dual core with 8800 GS. Actually the old detailed ISS crashes my Celestia if I put the 64K BMNG at the same time!


Hope the new model will run on your computer, i have find more good picture and rework on the textures:

Image
Leonardo module in the shuttle
Image
MPAC and Martroshka experiments on Zvezda
Image
The japanese section with Jem and Kibo
Image
ESA lab Columbus with Solar and Eutef experiment
Image
Airlock with toolbox

You have to tune your antialiasing setting to eliminate bad effects.

A big script show the construction from 1998 to 2009 with STS mission with Shuttle and all the Soyuz and Progress are present.
I cut the same script year by year to provide shorter animation 1998-2000/2001/2002/2003/2004/2005/2006/2007/2008/2009.cel
theses scripts use cel url's from 1.51 and run also on celestia 1.60
Some vessel are docking in real time (Soyuz, Piers, ATV jules vernes and 2 Shuttles)
Models will be furnished in cmod with dds/dxt1 pictures , certainly with a lower pack for some textures and models.


I have to do some last adjustements and hope that Gilles can find a solution to move the srms on the shuttle during instalation of the ISS modules,
if not i will publish this second release this week.
promise..

Just if someone could help for the replace command
I think i will make an invisible object nammed iss inside Zarya and use the command replace for him ?


Linuxman
StarWarSaga 2001 odyssey Back in USSR by linuxman

http://celestiasws.free.fr

AMD-64x2-6000 4 gb DDR2-800 geforce GTX460 1gb Asus M2N-sli-d Apple cinema display 23" Linux Gentoo 64 bits Vista pro 64 bits celestia 1.60 official

Chuft-Captain
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#74by Chuft-Captain » 28.04.2009, 06:45

linuxm@n wrote:Just if someone could help for the replace command
I think i will make an invisible object nammed iss inside Zarya and use the command replace for him ?
Linuxman,
I'm not sure what help exactly that you're asking for... the correct syntax for the "Replace"?

I suspect that you want to do is what I was describing in this post: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13376&p=111527&hilit=REPLACE#p111527
(Don't worry about the bug I described... it's apparently been fixed since the build I was using at that time.)

Hope this answers your question.

CC

PS. This addon is looking great! Looking forward to the release, although on my machine I will probably get about 1-2 FPS ( if I can run it at all! :( ). I'm not even sure if my graphics will handle FXT1..3, 5 etc.
"Is a planetary surface the right place for an expanding technological civilization?"
-- Gerard K. O'Neill (1969)

O'NEILL COLONY
LAGRANGE POINTS

ANDREA
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#75by ANDREA » 28.04.2009, 09:40

Hello linuxm@n, your ISS is becoming nicer and nicer, cannot wait to see your next release.
Well done, very appreciated! :wink:
Bye

Andrea :D
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 3.8 GHz- 8 GB DDR2
DELL 2709W 1920x1200- WIN 7 64 bit- ASUS P5K-E-
8800 GTX 768MB- 6xSATA II, total 7.5 TB-260.89- Celestia 1.6.1
Celestia1.4.1_patch3- Vincent's LUA Edu Tools 1.2

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#76by linuxm@n » 07.05.2009, 19:45

ANDREA wrote:Hello linuxm@n, your ISS is becoming nicer and nicer, cannot wait to see your next release.
Well done, very appreciated! :wink:
Bye

Andrea :D

ISS release2 is online

Run the scripts that you can find in the "scripts" directory, for the moment in french language, a friend of mine will help me for the translation:
-iss-french :
is the complete construction of the ISS station from 1998 to 2009
iss-2000/2002/2003/2004.......the same script cutted year by year

theses cel scripts run on celestia 1.51 and 1.60 (i use url and hope everybody can play them)

Don't forget to set the maximum value for antialiasing in your graphic driver to have a very good quality

I'am not fully satisfied and some little default could appear in this release, but i'am a little tired with the iss for the moment.

I will certainly do some corections later.

A last picture before you download this addon:


Image


RELEASE 2 IS HERE

http://celestiasws.free.fr/iss-construction.zip



PS:
Meshes are furnished on cmod with dds textures
please inform me if you find errors in this addon
Hope you will enjoy it!


Linuxman
StarWarSaga 2001 odyssey Back in USSR by linuxman

http://celestiasws.free.fr

AMD-64x2-6000 4 gb DDR2-800 geforce GTX460 1gb Asus M2N-sli-d Apple cinema display 23" Linux Gentoo 64 bits Vista pro 64 bits celestia 1.60 official

selden
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#77by selden » 07.05.2009, 20:10

o_O

Most excellent!

I am running the script iss2008-2009 under Celestia v1.5.1.
It is very good.

Sadly, it does not work for me under Celestia v1.6.0 RC1.
The viewpoints that I get are very far away from the ISS :(
Selden

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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#78by fsgregs » 08.05.2009, 00:54

All I can is ..... WOW!!!!!! :blue:

The amount of effort you placed in this is simply .... extraordinary! I have seen very few add-ons this detailed and so carefully scripted. Selden's Hale Telescope and some of your 2001 efforts come to mind, but this ISS ... is ... well .... WOW!

Thank you for this. NASA and ESA really should download this and enjoy it for themselves!

Frank

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#79by linuxm@n » 08.05.2009, 13:19

selden wrote:o_O

Most excellent!

I am running the script iss2008-2009 under Celestia v1.5.1.
It is very good.

Sadly, it does not work for me under Celestia v1.6.0 RC1.
The viewpoints that I get are very far away from the ISS :(

Thank you selden

After installing 1.60rc1 on Windows vista i have made a little test
with new url , could you try this little script

http://celestiasws.free.fr/iss1998-160rc1.cel

If this little script run on 1.60rc1,could be also run on the future 1.60 official version ?

I try my addon on a compiled version on linux ( i don't know exactly that release but 1.60 appears then i launched it )
and all the station appears but Zarya is missed, that is curious because last month it was running.But that is not so important for me.

Some remarks:

-We have try to make a solar panel rotation but the pannel follow the sun approximatively
(Zarya ,Zvezda and p6 truss pannels)

-Shuttle used is always the Atlantis model found on the same Nasa page than the original model from iss.
I think i will just change the names of the textures to be correct. I don't know exactly where are the differences, if these
differences is only the docking bay, i will create a separate meshe for the dock and use the replace texture command for the orbiters.

I have just found a Nasa STS-125 simulation ,it's look like celestia but with shadows and the orbiter is the same model i used.
http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducato ... index.html

You can install it and watch it , it is a Win 32 program but you can install it on linux with the wine emulator

Linuxman
Last edited by linuxm@n on 08.05.2009, 14:17, edited 1 time in total.
StarWarSaga 2001 odyssey Back in USSR by linuxman

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AMD-64x2-6000 4 gb DDR2-800 geforce GTX460 1gb Asus M2N-sli-d Apple cinema display 23" Linux Gentoo 64 bits Vista pro 64 bits celestia 1.60 official

linuxm@n
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Re: Nasa ISS model hightly detailled

#80by linuxm@n » 08.05.2009, 14:00

fsgregs wrote:All I can is ..... WOW!!!!!! :blue:

The amount of effort you placed in this is simply .... extraordinary! I have seen very few add-ons this detailed and so carefully scripted. Selden's Hale Telescope and some of your 2001 efforts come to mind, but this ISS ... is ... well .... WOW!

Thank you for this. NASA and ESA really should download this and enjoy it for themselves!

Frank


Thank you Franck, it's thrue that since 17 months as you know it, i have spend all my time at home and worked on 2001 baikonur (not on line at this time) and more recently on the ISS every day. But my health is now better and i will soon return to my normal life , and i couldn't spend all that time for celestia.

The movie you have done recently with 2001 is very good and the music respect really the good timing.

Regards

Linuxman
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http://celestiasws.free.fr

AMD-64x2-6000 4 gb DDR2-800 geforce GTX460 1gb Asus M2N-sli-d Apple cinema display 23" Linux Gentoo 64 bits Vista pro 64 bits celestia 1.60 official


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