New content and interactivity in next Celestia

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selden
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#41by selden » 15.03.2009, 13:38

ElChristou wrote:If the Url get a title is there a real need for the whole Url? (I mean a title can be short and enough clear to show where the url goes, no?)

No. For security reasons, you need to see the entire URL. You might have an infected copy of Celestia which is redirecting you to malware sites.
Selden

ElChristou
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#42by ElChristou » 15.03.2009, 14:07

selden wrote:
ElChristou wrote:If the Url get a title is there a real need for the whole Url? (I mean a title can be short and enough clear to show where the url goes, no?)

No. For security reasons, you need to see the entire URL. You might have an infected copy of Celestia which is redirecting you to malware sites.

Ok, good reason. Then I guess we could solve this point by displaying the entire url if mouse over the title for a few seconds...
BTW, a parenthesis, I don't know on other platforms, but on osX no such security exist, all we have is a "Web info" opening the browser on the requested page...
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#43by dirkpitt » 06.04.2009, 01:01

How about, instead of hiding away object-specific metadata/scripts inside context menus, we expose more info/controls in the hud? This would increase the usefulness of the hud, and also make metadata more accessible to Celestia newbies.

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#44by chris » 06.04.2009, 05:58

dirkpitt wrote:How about, instead of hiding away object-specific metadata/scripts inside context menus, we expose more info/controls in the hud? This would increase the usefulness of the hud, and also make metadata more accessible to Celestia newbies.

Yes, I agree that making object-specific scripts more visible is a good idea. I fear that putting too many object specific features inside a context menu would turn Celestia into an Easter egg hunt. While this can be fun (I enjoyed exploring Runar's Ran add-on and looking for little secrets), it would in general be frustrating to have to hunt and click through the universe trying to figure out what to do with each add-on.

--Chris

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#45by ElChristou » 06.04.2009, 11:22

As ex graphic designer, DW, Chris, there is one thing I would really like to clear out. Until now I had the impression that the main idea was to avoid cluttering the OGL windows with HUD or UI elements. Is that not true anymore or do I misunderstood the idea from the beginning?
I would really like a definitive clear decision on this precise topic because it's the base of the UI design. No middle tone please, or we want a free OGL windows and we must find way to "hide" controls or we don't care and we are free dev whatever easy/practical solution without worrying about the view. At this stage we need to chose between this two options... (later on we will be able to fine tune the stuff...)

As basic hobbyist user, I vote for uncluttered OGL windows. I would prefer contextual functions because it's an intuitive way to link functions to bodies. I can imagine having some kind of HUD stuff appearing if I select a body with controls on it but by far I prefer to have the control of what is on screen. The Contextual menu give me this freedom. It is unobtrusive (hidden if mouse out) as possible and again very easy to use, all my fav applications use in a way or another such mechanism, so it's really not new.
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#46by duds26 » 07.04.2009, 14:09

In that case.
I want a button to hide all of the HUD and stuff (except for a small button to bring it back).
This makes it possible to switch between them (or even between no HUD, some HUD, full HUD).
By using a button where the user can press on.

And if the button is too much.
Let it fade away when your at the minimal (no) HUD.
(And let it come/ fade back when mouseover.)

This should satisfy everyone.
And makes it possible to go from no to all HUD.

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#47by Guckytos » 07.04.2009, 16:40

ElChristou wrote:As ex graphic designer, DW, Chris, there is one thing I would really like to clear out. Until now I had the impression that the main idea was to avoid cluttering the OGL windows with HUD or UI elements. Is that not true anymore or do I misunderstood the idea from the beginning?
I would really like a definitive clear decision on this precise topic because it's the base of the UI design. No middle tone please, or we want a free OGL windows and we must find way to "hide" controls or we don't care and we are free dev whatever easy/practical solution without worrying about the view. At this stage we need to chose between this two options... (later on we will be able to fine tune the stuff...)

As basic hobbyist user, I vote for uncluttered OGL windows. I would prefer contextual functions because it's an intuitive way to link functions to bodies. I can imagine having some kind of HUD stuff appearing if I select a body with controls on it but by far I prefer to have the control of what is on screen. The Contextual menu give me this freedom. It is unobtrusive (hidden if mouse out) as possible and again very easy to use, all my fav applications use in a way or another such mechanism, so it's really not new.

I agree completely here with Christophe.

Don't clutter the screen.

The idea, to get a symbol for a HUD, if you hover for a time over an object with more options to choose from, and that fades away, if you don't click it within a certain time sounds good.

And also duds idea, with cycling possiblity of just a button somewhere.

Regards,

Guckytos

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#48by ElChristou » 07.04.2009, 17:38

Idea: let's say you have on screen something that will become the pivot of the whole UI. This something must be define, may be an icon like object, with visual properties changing if mouse over or not (transparent if mouse out), etc. You can move it where you want, it's like a floating palette. Now, clicking on it will bring options for the selected object, so basically it's a contextual menu but not like he actual one. If you keep it open and select another objects, the options will be change depending on the new selection. If you click in the void (actually deselecting any selected objects) we can centralize some rendering and default options in it. So It's like an interactive UI element adapting itself to what you do...

Opinion?
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#49by chris » 07.04.2009, 19:30

I also would like to develop an uncluttered UI. But, I don't think that
ElChristou wrote:As ex graphic designer, DW, Chris, there is one thing I would really like to clear out. Until now I had the impression that the main idea was to avoid cluttering the OGL windows with HUD or UI elements. Is that not true anymore or do I misunderstood the idea from the beginning?
I would really like a definitive clear decision on this precise topic because it's the base of the UI design. No middle tone please, or we want a free OGL windows and we must find way to "hide" controls or we don't care and we are free dev whatever easy/practical solution without worrying about the view. At this stage we need to chose between this two options... (later on we will be able to fine tune the stuff...)

Well, you'll be disappointed because I do think that OpenGL windows (supported nicely by Qt4) and hideable controls are important steps for getting an uncluttered UI.

As basic hobbyist user, I vote for uncluttered OGL windows. I would prefer contextual functions because it's an intuitive way to link functions to bodies. I can imagine having some kind of HUD stuff appearing if I select a body with controls on it but by far I prefer to have the control of what is on screen. The Contextual menu give me this freedom. It is unobtrusive (hidden if mouse out) as possible and again very easy to use, all my fav applications use in a way or another such mechanism, so it's really not new.
[/quote]

The context menu approach that you advocate simply isn't adequate for all the things that I think Celestia needs to be able to do. So, while I agree that the context menu is an important part of the UI, I don't see how can be the central part--and certainly not the only part--of Celestia's UI. To take a very simple example: how can I toggle the visibility of an object with the context menu? Hiding is easy, but showing it? There's nothing left to click on!

I feel strongly that add-ons need to have some user-visible representation in Celestia, and that the concept of add-on needs to be extended to include scripts, camera views, documentation, and meta-information. I don't know how this can be done when all the UI is in the context menu, which seems to me to be based strictly on objects.

--Chris

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#50by ElChristou » 07.04.2009, 20:26

chris wrote:Well, you'll be disappointed because I do think that OpenGL windows (supported nicely by Qt4) and hideable controls are important steps for getting an uncluttered UI.

Why disappointed? As a end user yes if you don't care about cluttering the OGL view. But at dev level it's your choice. If you say I don't want permanent UI in the OGL windows it's one thing and if you say i don't care, what I want is total brute control, it's another thing.

chris wrote:The context menu approach that you advocate simply isn't adequate for all the things that I think Celestia needs to be able to do. So, while I agree that the context menu is an important part of the UI, I don't see how can be the central part--and certainly not the only part--of Celestia's UI. To take a very simple example: how can I toggle the visibility of an object with the context menu? Hiding is easy, but showing it? There's nothing left to click on!

I feel strongly that add-ons need to have some user-visible representation in Celestia, and that the concept of add-on needs to be extended to include scripts, camera views, documentation, and meta-information. I don't know how this can be done when all the UI is in the context menu, which seems to me to be based strictly on objects.

I never said the contextual menu (as it is now - my above idea is something else -) should be the only part of the UI neither the central part. What I do advocate is to centralize in the contextual menu all functions tide to an object. A script do something to an object? A celUrl point to a specific part of an object? A media or whatever meta data is about an object? All this IMO could be easily triggered from the contextual menu of this object. That's what I'm saying, nothing more. Now, I do base this comment on addons that do represent something clickable.
I guess the basic example of the invisible object is a nebulae, right? Are we sure such body will always be invisible? I mean no placeholder or other graphical solutions will be implemented in the future? And let's say it is what it is, an invisible object. Couldn't it be triggered by the stars within? Something like "Show parent Nebulae"? (Note that these are some quick thoughts on the fly, no deep concept...)
What else can be invisible or immaterial?
What kind of script or media will never point to something visible or clickable? (that can not be used as support?)

Now ok, let's say the contextual menu is not ideal; what other way do we have?
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Imy
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#51by Imy » 03.07.2009, 07:58

The new current contextual menus of the different objects in Celestia have check interesting proprieties ; but how boring it is to check several of them : one click and the contextual menu disappear, I show it again and check the second contextual option and again ... When you want to play with object show options particulary, it's not the easiest way to do !
So what about a double right click or a special entry in the menu to change the current contextual menu in a persisting menu (with a cross to hide it then)? I think I've seen such function in Python interface where for instance, the first entry of all menus, (that's mean also the general menus) have an entry with a clickable dots line as first menu function. When you click on it, the menu becomes independant like a tool palette.
In such case, a kind of transparency should also allow to continue to see Celestia scene and the results of clicked menu functions?
Anyway, Only considering contextual objet menus in Celestia, they belongs to their objets since they have a title.

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#52by Imy » 20.07.2009, 11:54

A simple way could use however only Shift button. When you click with your mouse to call the contextual menu, you press shift (with has no function in this case) and then, if you click on a function inside the menu, the menu doesn't disapear after. Would not be easier to show 'Vector references' then? In this case of checking list in contextual menus, shift button would allow use to select quickly all your options : for instance terminator, plant grid, and sun direction... We may think that specific add-on list could also appears in this contextual menu...
Anyway, What about on this semi-persisting menu with SHIFT?

BobHegwood
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#53by BobHegwood » 20.07.2009, 14:39

At ElChristou's request, I am letting you know that Christophe is now
fully withdrawn from Celestia and all of its fun. Sad to say, but I'm simply
making this comment at his request. :roll:

Thanks, Brain-Dead
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Windows Vista Home Premium, 64-bit on a
Gateway Pentium Dual-Core CPU E5200, 2.5GHz
7 GB RAM, 500 GB hard disk, Nvidia GeForce 7100
Nvidia nForce 630i, 1680x1050 screen, Latest SVN

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#54by Imy » 21.07.2009, 07:37

I'm sad to know it. I hope he will come back someday! Thanks Bob to inform me.
I think my contextual menu special feature should interest everyone, shouldn't it? Should I post elsewhere then?

Imy
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#55by Imy » 21.07.2009, 08:05

I did.
If you're interested, continue to viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14038

BobHegwood
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#56by BobHegwood » 21.07.2009, 16:58

Imy wrote:I'm sad to know it. I hope he will come back someday! Thanks Bob to inform me.
I think my contextual menu special feature should interest everyone, shouldn't it? Should I post elsewhere then?

Just FYI, you can still reach Christophe at the Celestial Matters Forum HERE. :wink:

Thanks, Brain-Dead
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Windows Vista Home Premium, 64-bit on a
Gateway Pentium Dual-Core CPU E5200, 2.5GHz
7 GB RAM, 500 GB hard disk, Nvidia GeForce 7100
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#57by Imy » 22.07.2009, 10:41

Aright.

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#58by Spaceboy » 16.04.2010, 13:29

I've read in the shortcut menu how to alter the fieldview. There has been some posts here about telescope view, but what can you do with it? Can you control your telescope with it like in Stellarium?
Spaceboy Dennis, amateur astronomer & member observatory since 2009.
http://www.volkssterrenwachtnijmegen.nl/vsn/

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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#59by NoXion » 10.04.2011, 14:08

As a user and sometime add-on editor, I have a few recommendations:

1) Expand the "AltSurface" modifier to include the ability to define an alternative atmosphere and albedo to go along with the surface. Example:

Code: Select all

AltSurface "Terraformed Oberon" "Sol/Uranus/Oberon"
{
   Texture "Terraformed_Oberon.*"
   NightTexture "#.*"

   Atmosphere {
      Height 60
      Lower [ 0.43 0.52 0.65 ]
      Upper [ 0.26 0.47 0.84 ]
      Sky [ 0.40 0.6 1.0 ]
      Sunset [ 1.0 0.6 0.2 ]
      CloudHeight 7
      CloudSpeed 65
      CloudMap "gc_earth_04-clouds170.*"
   }
   Albedo 0.68
}


2) The ability to define "beginning/ending" dates in .STC and .DSC as well as .SSC files would be a bonus.

3) More shortcut keys, please! Specifically, I'd like the ability to call up the Solar System Browser and the Star Browser windows with shortcuts. Also, when you call up either of those windows, its default position obscures the HUD in the top left corner - surely a more sensible default position would be in the centre of the screen?

I apologise if this is the wrong place to bring up such things, but it was the closest I could find.
Currently worldbuilding!

duds26
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Re: New content and interactivity in next Celestia

#60by duds26 » 17.04.2011, 13:51

An AltAppearance where you can edit any parameter of the object itself would be the most handy and pro grammatically (the least work and bloat) the most practical route.



For addons it would be handy to have some sort of addon browser.
Having a content browser that gives control over all content (including addons) would be most practical in this case.

Where visibility and other information about an addon can be browsed.


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